Dialogue with Plume founder Chris Yin: How to build an encryption-native RWA ecosystem?

Share to original title: Building a Crypto-Native RWA Ecosystem with Chris Yin of Plume

Original source: Rebank

Original compilation: Luiza, ChainCatcher

Reprinted: Oliver, Mars Finance

Along with stablecoins, RWA is becoming a core pillar of the financial market's transition to blockchain-based settlement channels. Plume is one of the most noteworthy players in the RWA space, with its ecosystem connecting speculative retail users to the yield experience of traditional financial assets. The core logic is that the vitality of the crypto space is the driving force behind the demand for financial business to go on-chain.

In this conversation, host Will Beeson discussed the main highlights and future vision of Plume with co-founder and CEO Chris Yin, as well as various feasible paths for on-chain financial operations. Below is the transcript of the conversation (with some omissions):

Will:

First, please elaborate on your overall thoughts on the track that Plume is in, as well as the long-term vision for this project in your own language.

Chris:

First, let me briefly introduce the background: Plume focuses on the RWA field. We are building a blockchain, an ecosystem, and a network—all of which are centered around bringing RWA on-chain and enabling users to interact with it in a natively on-chain manner.

What sets us apart is our "crypto-first" approach. In the process of tokenizing off-chain assets, we do not merely replicate traditional systems; instead, we endow these assets with new attributes, allowing them to function more effectively in a crypto-native environment. The key lies in leveraging on-chain advantages—composability, liquidity, transparency, and programmability—and imparting these characteristics to RWAs. Currently, we have the largest user ecosystem in the RWA space and are actively building infrastructure to embrace the next phase of crypto development.

The motivation behind the founding of Plume is simple: we want to promote the development of the crypto economy. We firmly believe that life on-chain—operating entirely within a crypto-native environment—has fundamental advantages: a 24/7 uninterrupted global market, real asset ownership, instant composability, and an permissionless space for innovation. It is these characteristics that have spawned the development of DeFi, stablecoins, and a subsequent series of related fields.

Our core philosophy is: anyone can create new things anytime and anywhere using these foundational modules. By anchoring these capabilities to RWA—and ensuring that Token A corresponds to Real Asset B—we unlock a new dimension of innovation.

From a macro perspective, the current total scale of crypto assets is about 3-4 trillion USD, while the real-world economy—including stocks, bonds, derivatives, private credit, collectibles, and more—has a value of up to tens of trillions of USD. Our opportunity lies in bringing this capital on-chain to build a unified global economic layer.

Imagine integrating fragmented systems—such as NASDAQ, Hong Kong Stock Exchange, eBay, etc.—into a seamlessly connected, programmable unified market. The allure of crypto is that you can log in from anywhere and complete a transaction instantly with just a few clicks. This user experience should apply to all assets, not just crypto-native assets.

Today, we have seen the catalysts of this transformation: Bitcoin ETFs attracting widespread attention from institutions; stablecoins gradually moving towards the mainstream—governments and major financial institutions around the world are considering issuing their own stablecoins; and regulation is also catching up, with adjustments to regulatory frameworks occurring everywhere from the United States to Asia, from Latin America to the Middle East to accommodate this emerging trend.

Will:

Your perspective is completely different from that of other participants in the field. Taking Figure as an example, they focus on the in-depth needs of Wall Street and institutional users, starting with traditional financial products like Home Equity Lines of Credit (HELOC), attempting to optimize their issuance and management processes with blockchain. Essentially, they aim to use blockchain to create higher quality traditional financial products.

Your viewpoint is almost contrary: there are already a large number of users in the crypto space who come with specific purposes. Instead of transforming blockchain to solve traditional financial problems, it is better to leverage the unique advantages of crypto — gradually building a natural bridge to the real economy. Please elaborate on this idea.

Chris:

Indeed. Our perspective on the industry is unique for several reasons. Taking Figure as an example, one major advantage in the RWA field is its "positive-sum game" characteristic. During explosive market growth, there won't be just one winner; in the future, many successful companies and various development paths will emerge. We respect all participants, which is beneficial for the industry as a whole.

As you said, companies like Figure use blockchain to address the pain points of TradFi: improving the efficiency of home equity loans by approaching it from a process and cost perspective, making home equity lines of credit (HELOC) more efficient. Our approach is quite the opposite. We bet on the growth of the crypto economy rather than the transformation of traditional financial products. The transformation of traditional finance is, in our view, a result rather than a goal. Today's crypto world has already accommodated trillions of dollars in assets and has a large and continuously growing user base—this ecosystem is still expanding. As the scale grows, user demands will naturally evolve. Therefore, we are not making "internal renovations" to existing products, but are committed to exploring and building a brand new world.

This philosophical orientation has led to entirely different processes and products. We deeply practice the principles of cryptocurrency: liquidity, composability, and usability, with a greater focus on total revenue rather than cost control. People enter the cryptocurrency space not to save money—but to make money. This is the fundamental logic behind the existence of BTC and meme coins: users pursue growth in returns and upward potential.

From this perspective, we will not start from the traditional financial experience—one that requires KYC, has cumbersome operations, and has limited transfer capabilities, which results in very limited benefits for the end users. Our methodology is: how can we completely transform the product into a crypto-native experience? For example, now with on-chain government bond products, using USDS or Maker's newly launched Sky product as an example: I can directly go to the Uniswap or Maker website, deposit or exchange using stablecoins, which is equivalent to holding government bonds. This is a completely different experience.

This transformation is of great significance. The current locked amount of USDS is about four to five billion dollars, and it has full ecological composability, becoming a standard store of value alongside other yield-bearing stablecoins. This difference has driven the growth in usage, trading volume, and demand, giving rise to more upper-layer applications. In contrast, related products such as HELOC or U.S. short-term Treasury bonds, which are simply on-chain through traditional finance, require users to meet qualified investor qualifications (a $5 million funding threshold), have limited trading time windows, trade in increments of $100,000, and must complete KYC certification. Taking BlackRock's BUIDL fund (managed by Securitize) as an example, although it has performed well and has a total locked amount of two to three billion dollars, its scale is still smaller than USDS, and more importantly, the number of holders is extremely few, only a few dozen.

When you are building a crypto-native product rather than a "blockchain-based traditional financial product", you will ultimately achieve a vastly different user experience—essentially, a completely different product. We focus more on revenue growth rather than cost savings. While saving costs is certainly useful, at this stage we are more concerned with helping asset managers and crypto users earn more returns, explore new markets, and expand coverage. Stablecoins and on-chain U.S. Treasury bonds mean exporting U.S. financial infrastructure globally—this is the vision we want to achieve, rather than merely speeding up transactions for existing bond buyers. The core proposition is: how to create new native crypto products and experiences that empower the traditional financial system in a reverse manner?

Will:

What specific new experiences are there? What successful cases are there on the Plume platform?

Chris:

It involves various types, making it difficult to categorize simply, but I can give a few examples. On Plume, we have everything from alternative assets (private equity, real estate) to collectibles (Pokémon cards, whiskey, watches, wine), and even financial products from institutions such as BlackRock, Blackstone, and Carlyle.

Currently, the two most focused categories are:

1. Government bond products: With exchange rate fluctuations and continuously rising interest rates, on-chain government bonds have become the focus of the crypto space and even the global market, with strong demand for these products;

2. Mineral Vault: This is a protocol specifically for tokenizing mineral rights. Mineral Vault has approximately 3,000 oil wells in the U.S. (mainly in Texas), which can generate extremely stable cash flows with an annual return rate of 13%-20%. The company already has 600,000 shareholders in the real world, and after collaborating with us to tokenize, it attracted 85,000 on-chain holders in less than two months.

In the real world, it is almost impossible for ordinary investors to participate in oil well investments. However, on-chain, through our Nest protocol, you only need to click a button to exchange stablecoins for tokens, and you can immediately start receiving regular profit distributions. The on-chain conversion rate is also shocking: in just two months, over 10% of the total shareholders of Mineral Vault have migrated on-chain. Such a scale of capital inflow has forced companies to reposition themselves - they are adjusting their product strategies and business models to meet the needs of global crypto-native users.

This case perfectly illustrates how on-chain technology fundamentally reshapes the essence of products: there is a qualitative leap in interaction experience, capital flow speed, and accessibility. Assets are no longer simply transplanted but acquire true native cryptographic vitality.

Will:

Does this involve leveraged cycling (borrowing funds for reinvestment)? Do you think this is the main driving force behind capital on-chain?

Chris:

This is indeed an important factor. Among platforms in the same category as Plume, we are the only product that truly implements circular leverage operations. Other projects may have mentioned this concept, but data shows that the actual usage rate has always been zero. This operational technique has a very high technical threshold and is completely different from classic cryptocurrency circular strategies.

On the Mineral Vault asset, we are currently facilitating approximately $40 million in leveraged trading. Users borrow funds through the lending protocol to purchase more assets, creating a cycle. This means more capital inflow for asset issuers, higher returns for users, and improved fund utilization for the lending protocol. This creates a completely different product form that traditional amounts could never achieve.

Will:

Will Plume focus on asset issuance and management in the future, or will it expand into other areas such as payment and embedded wallets?

Chris: For us, any business will gradually expand according to user and market demands. But we will not forget Plume's original intention: to promote the development of the crypto economy. Building dedicated blockchains and ecosystems is to realize asset on-chain, but the ultimate goal is user experience - to enable global users to complete various operations with one click.

Payment may be a field we will venture into in the future, but currently, asset issuance is the core driving force. However, merely putting assets on the blockchain is far from enough; to ensure assets truly succeed, a complete ecosystem must be built: including a buyer community, liquidity providers, composability, and innovative asset application scenarios. This is precisely the blueprint we are currently striving to construct.

Whether it's payment scenarios, embedded experiences, or multi-platform integration, we maintain an open attitude: whether it's payment, embedded experiences, or integration with other platforms. For example, connecting these assets to Robinhood wallet, real estate applications, etc.

Traditional public chains often exhibit zero-sum thinking. We do not see it this way; we always focus on building the entire crypto ecosystem. Plume and its ecological framework represent the best paradigm for guiding market entry at present, but this is just the starting point. We are actively planning the expansion of diverse scenarios. For example, Solana has a great community, and we are happy to bring projects to Solana to allow more people to use them. This positive-sum effect helps everyone grow — including ourselves.

Therefore, we can connect with traditional banks and also be compatible with other public chains. Plume is not just a blockchain. Having our own blockchain is a prerequisite for launching this market, but in the long run, we believe the key to success lies in being able to appear wherever users need us.

Will:

How do you expect Plume's users or transaction volume to achieve a tenfold increase? New crypto users? Collaborations with platforms like Revolut, Nubank, etc.? Or attracting users through exclusive assets?

Chris: The key to growth lies in providing a unique experience. If it can be obtained elsewhere, users will not migrate. Just like the success of the iPhone is not about being able to read news, but about supporting applications like Uber and Airbnb, which brings a whole new mobile experience compared to desktop.

Currently, the scale of RWA in the crypto field is still very small (stablecoins at 200 billion USD, RWA at less than 10 billion USD), which leaves a significant growth space in this area.

Therefore, the first stage is to promote growth within the crypto ecosystem—expanding to new public chains and incorporating new assets such as Bitcoin. Vertically develop exclusive innovative products—from early Bitcoin and meme coins to structured products, leveraged tools, and multiple access points to attract a differentiated user base.

The second stage is to integrate Plume into the existing use cases of users (such as platforms like Revolut, Nubank, etc.). Stablecoins have become the main channel for users to enter the crypto space, and leveraging the global expansion trend of stablecoins, we will build on this foundation to add new products and achieve natural user conversion.

Users can be classified into three categories:

Crypto native users - represented by Bitcoin holders, are mostly long-term investors. This type of user is highly aligned with the type of products we are building.

DeFi deep users — including leveraged traders, yield farmers, and users pursuing APY through circular staking — are naturally aligned with our products.

Stablecoin users - this is the key group with the greatest potential. They are not concerned with leverage or DeFi strategies, but are simply seeking better savings options.

When we reach the third type of users, user adoption will experience explosive growth. However, currently, since RWA is still in the early niche stage, relying solely on growth within the crypto ecosystem is sufficient to achieve a 10x expansion. After that, the next 10x growth will come from Web2 channels and a stablecoin-driven ecosystem.

Will: Please talk about the Nest protocol and the overall concept of building a dedicated chain for RWA. You adopted a unique strategy early on - simultaneously building Layer 1 and Layer 2, and directly developing multiple applications on the chain, even personally promoting the business development of specific application scenarios.

Chris: We are one of the few teams that take a full-stack approach. This is because we focus more on solving problems rather than promoting technology.

Initially, we only wanted to build a tokenization engine, but as we delved deeper, we realized the need to create a complete ecosystem, including legal systems, compliance frameworks, infrastructures, and more. To be honest, if I were to give advice, I would say: carefully consider whether to build a chain. This has cost me years of effort.

People think that building a blockchain is just about releasing code and recruiting developers. In reality, you need a complete system including liquidity, token economics, developer community, and more. With the complexity of RWA—legal agreements, custody, cash flow, regulation—the challenges are even greater.

Initially, tokenization took 6-36 months and cost between $100,000 and $200,000, much like early internet startups needed to raise funds to buy servers. We want to change this situation and make tokenization fast, inexpensive, and user-friendly, just like AWS.

But after the assets are on-chain, the real challenge is usability. Even common operations like leveraged loops are exceptionally complex on RWA: non-real-time pricing, weak liquidity, lack of oracle, and issues such as KYC, AML, taxation, and licensing.

Therefore, we had to build more components ourselves. Nest is the yield distribution product we developed, which simplifies the complexity of RWA into a Uniswap-like experience: select a contract, deposit, exchange, and done.

But to make Nest operate, we need to complete the full set of work: registering entities, integrating KYC, handling taxes, licenses, compliance, etc. If no one can build on the foundation, the infrastructure is worthless. So we built a complete tech stack.

Will: What is your investment ratio in technology development versus legal/regulatory framework?

Chris: To be honest, legal and regulatory work accounts for a significant portion. The technology is not simple either—just adapting the lending market and the circulation system to fit RWA requires a lot of custom development.

We spend a lot of time communicating with regulators (Washington, Hong Kong, UAE, etc.), keeping up to date with policy trends and integrating them into our business. Establishing a custody structure is very costly (ranging from $25,000 to $200,000), and we take on this work to alleviate the burden on issuers.

There is also ongoing operational work: tax reporting, document submissions, compliance maintenance, etc. The amount of invisible work is very substantial.

Will: Stripe attracts startups through its Atlas service and profits through payment processing. What is Plume's business model?

Chris: Essentially the same pattern, depending on which stage you join:

1. Tokenization services: Assist in bringing assets on-chain 2. Ecosystem access: Help assets gain liquidity and users

Our sources of profit include:

Gas fee: On-chain transaction fee

Nest products: Extract a small amount of profit from interest-bearing assets

Off-chain - On-chain arbitrage: For example, providing advance settlement services for assets that require instant liquidity.

These not only create income but also enhance user experience. Just as MEV has become an important source of income in the crypto space, the potential for arbitrage opportunities between the real world and on-chain markets is enormous.

Will: This ultimately creates a smoother user experience. Although there is a certain cost, it achieves real-time, internet-speed economic operations.

Chris: Indeed. When you can allocate funds to the best investment opportunities globally with just one click, and then retrieve them with another click, this transformation is disruptive. Traditional systems make this process either impossible or extremely costly. We have reduced costs by 90%, while still being able to build an excellent business by retaining 5-10% of the profits.

Will: Thank you very much for your time. This conversation was very exciting.

Chris: Thank you very much for the invitation. RWA is not simply about transferring real-world assets into the crypto space; we are building an entirely new world and market where cryptocurrencies and tangible economic assets will merge into one, with no clear boundaries. The most exciting ideas have yet to be born, and we are always open to collaboration.